Watchman Willie Martin Archive




        Sun, 29 Jul 2001 20:12:14 ‑0700


       "Bob Jones" <[email protected]>





               (FROM THE CDL REPORT 1999)

                   Interview with Darquier de Pellepoix, former

Commissioner for Jewish

Problems of the Vichy government (Published in L'Express, Oct.

28‑Nov. 4, 1978)

                   "The 6 million Jews who disappeared? An invention

pure and simple!

A Jewish invention!"

                   A small tradesman from Cahors, with a monocle and a

borrowed nobility handle to his name, is one of the principals

responsible for the deportation of 75,000 Jews

from France. Even today he regrets nothing. For Louis Darquier de

Pellepoix, the

Commissioner General for Jewish Problems between May 1942 and

February 1944, is not a ghost from the past. He lives in a village on

the borders of the Estremadura and Andalusia. At this time when

the process of Kurt Lischka begins at Frankfurt, one of the

Gestapo's patrons in France, Darquier, the thorough organizer of

the lottery at the Vel' d'hiv' in 1942, makes a statement in a

conversation with Philippe Ganier‑Raymond. It must be read and

reread rather.

                   L'Express: Sir, exactly 36 years ago, you delivered to

the Germans 75,000 men, women and children. You are the French


                    Louis Darquier de Pellepoix: What numbers are those?

                   L'Express: Everybody knows them. They are official.

They can be also found in this document. (I show him Serge

Klarsfeld's "Testimony of the deportation of the Jews from France",

open at the right page).

                   L. Darquier: That's what I thought: a Jewish document.

Here is again the Jewish

propaganda! It goes without saying, you have nothing else to show

me but Jewish documents. And that for a good reason: there are no


                   L'Express: Oh but there are. Hundreds, thousands of

others, that are not inspired by the Jewish organizations. Having

conceded that, you will understand maybe that the Jews should be

interested in the disappearance of 6 millions of them.

                   L. Darquier: That figure is an invention pure and simple.

A Jewish invention, certainly. That is how the Jews are: they will

do anything for publicity.

                   L'Express: You really think what you just said? Could

you repeat that?

                   L. Darquier: Ah, I see! You too are brainwashed. But you

are all blinded ... You

cannot understand that the Jews have only one idea in their head:

to wreak havoc everywhere. And to what end? You know it very

well: to make Jerusalem the world's capital. It is enough to open

the newspapers today to realize that. You came here to accuse me,

but ...

                   L'Express: No, I am not a prosecutor. I am not a Nazi

hunter either. I came to see you to try to understand what went on

in a head such as yours 36 years ago. One item, that's all.

                   L. Darquier: You are an agent from Tel‑Aviv.

                   L'Express: An agent from Tel‑Aviv, if he were

interested in you. would not waste his time asking you questions.

                   L. Darquier: At any rate, you are wasting your time. I

have nothing to tell you.

                   L'Express: Again you are mistaken. You already told me

something essential: you are almost a unique case. You are not

saying: "I had my orders. I was following them". Your position

appears not to have changed at all since 1942.

                   L. Darquier: So you think that the Jewish question dates

since 1942! However, the Jewish question has been a problem for

thousands of years ... As early as the Middle

Ages the west, Christianity, was struggling against the tentacular

progression of the

Jews. We did not invent the yellow star. If in the 12 century the

need was felt to make the Jews wear the mark, there was a reason

for that. As for our recent history, it is entirely determined by the

search for a solution to the Jewish question.

                   Let me ask you a question: have you ever considered

what was the reason why it was necessary to wait for so long to

implement the Balfour Declaration? Have you

counted the wars, counted the dead needed to reach the point we

are at today: the settlement of Jews on a disputed territory? As for

me, when the Marshal (Petain) placed me in charge of the

Commission for Jewish Problems, I set myself one goal. A

humanitarian goal, mind you: to make the situation of French Jews

as comfortable as possible.

                   L'Express: You cannot be serious. Who do you think

will believe that?

                    L. Darquier: I am forgetting that you are an unfortunate

victim of Jewish

propaganda. And Jewish propaganda has always been based on a

lie. Always ... Always ... That's what I was saying: during the

months while I was commissioner, I spent the better part of my

time trying to alleviate the troubles of the Jews. It is understood

that we are speaking of French Jews. I am giving you an example.

Between you and me, do you think that it was necessary to deport

the Debre family?

                   L'Express: No. Absolutely not. Neither the Debres nor

any others ...

                   L. Darquier: Father Debres is a half‑Jew, we understand

that. But after all, those people have done service. They are Jews

who opted for France. It would have

been extremely unjust to deport them. I have quoted that case to

you, but there are many others. In general, I wanted to group the

French Jews separately.

                   L'Express: That is so true, that in February 1943 you

suggested to the Vichy

government a certain number of actions that even the Germans

had not thought of.

                              "Statement of Louis Darquier de Pellepoix to the

'Petit Parisien' of February 1, 1943.

                              I am suggesting to the government:

                              1. To implement the mandatory wearing of the

yellow star in the unoccupied zone.

                              2. To prevent Jews without exception from access

to and performance of public office. No matter what the intellectual

value and the services brought by a Jewish

individual may be, the fact remains that he is Jewish and by that he

introduces in the position he occupies not only a natural resistance

to the operations of arianization but also a spirit which in the long

run profoundly modifies the value of the entire French


                              3. The annulment of the French nationality of all

Jews who acquired it after 1927..

                   L. Darquier: That story about the yellow star in the free

zone, I do not remember

it. It must be again your Jewish propaganda.

                   L'Express: Absolutely not so. It is here, black and white,

in Le Petit Parisien of

February 1, 1943.

                   L. Darquier: Perhaps... Perhaps... At any rate, it would

have been a mistake.

Because, you know, contrary to what has been repeated quite

often, the yellow star was not popular.

                   L'Express: And the denaturalization of the Jews, was

that a mistake?

                    L. Darquier: Oh, no, not that. I said that...

                   L'Express: The commissioner who preceded you,

Xavier Vallat, who as a matter of fact was considered too soft by

the German authorities, had set 1932 as the limit

for the naturalization year before which nobody ‑ as a matter of

principle ‑ was subject to racial laws. You moved it back to 1927.

                   L. Darquier: But of course! It should have been further


                   L'Express: More Jews deported, is it?

                   L. Darquier: Evidently. It was necessary to get rid at any

rate of those foreigners, of those alien residents, of those

thousands of people with no homeland who were at the root of all

our woes. They wanted the war. They brought it about. It was

necessary for them to leave. As soon as possible, as far as

possible. That was the

second goal I had set myself when I took office to send all those

people to do in their own home what they were trying to do in ours!

                   L'Express: How is that, in their own home? In 1942, the

Jewish people had no


                   L. Darquier: I mean to say there, I don't know where, in

Poland. The intent was to give them a territory there somewhere.

Thus, they would have ceased being without a homeland! That's

what I wanted: to put an end to the wandering Jew, so that finally,

after 2000 years, those people should no longer be aliens wherever

they may be living.

                   L'Express: That is amazing. In a little while you will tell

me that Auschwitz was

straight arrow from the Balfour Declaration!

                   L. Darquier: Auschwitz... Auschwitz... You know, there

have been many stories about Auschwitz! One should begin by

finding out what really took place at Auschwitz.

                   L'Express: A million dead. Among them, countless

children. All gassed.

                   L. Darquier: No, no, no... That, you will never make me

believe that. It is again

that devilish Jewish propaganda that spread and maintained that

legend. I am telling you again that the Jews are always ready for

anything to get talked about, to appear interesting, to become

objects of compassion. As for myself I will tell you what really took

place at Auschwitz. There was gassing. Yes, true. But the lice were


                   L'Express: What do you mean?

                   L. Darquier: I mean that when the Jews arrived in the

camp, they were made to

undress, as is natural, before they were lead to the showers. In the

meantime their clothes were disinfected. After the war, the Jews

circulated everywhere photographs showing underwear piled up or

hanging on lines. And they groaned..."Look", said they, "that is the

underwear of our brothers who were

exterminated!" That is certainly false. But what can you expect,

that's how Jews are. They must always lie.

                   L'Express: That is what I was saying: you are unique.

Not even Eichmann denied the existence of the final solution. You

do. But you knew it nevertheless.

                              "Service notification of the Central Office of

Security of the Reich IV B 4 of June 11, 1942. A meeting took place

with the participation, apart from the undersigned SS Chief of

Division Dannecker, of those responsible for the Jewish sections in

Brussels and the Hague.

                              Goal. Military reasons prevent this summer the

relocation of German Jews to the eastern operation zone. The

commander SS for the Reich has ordered that a greater number of

Jews from South‑East Europe and from the occupied West be

transferred to the Auschwitz concentration camp. the essential

condition is that the Jews

of both genders be between 16 and 40 years of age. 10% of Jews

incapable of work could be part of that transport.

                   Decision. It has been decided that 15,000 Jews will be

deported from the

Netherlands, 10,000 from Belgium and 100,000 from France,

including the unoccupied zone".

                   L'Express: Do you not find that that simple text, which

of necessity alighted on your desk, implies in a barely veiled

manner the final solution?

                   L. Darquier: No. I am telling you again that the final

solution is an invention pure and simple. Do you know anyone who

saw, with his own eyes, a gas chamber?

                   L'Express: Thousands of Auschwitz survivors. Without

taking into account the inquiry commissions of the Allies after the

war, and all visitors to the Auschwitz

museum. Me, among others.

                    L. Darquier: Your gas chamber was manufactured after

the fact. You will not make me change my mind.

                   L'Express: That may very well be, in fact. You will not

change your mind. Now,

these photographs, have you seen them? (I try to show him the

photographs of bodies of women and children pulled out of the gas

chamber. He turns away).

                   L. Darquier: I do not even want to see them. They are

doctored photographs. You know, I am very well informed. I know

that after the war the Jews fabricated

thousands of forgeries and, as I was just telling you.

                   L'Express: Well. Now can you tell me what happened to

those people? (I turn

before him the pages of Klarsfeld's book, which is a sort of

deportation listing). What happened to the thousand deportees of

the 33rd transport ‑ I pick that as an example among others ‑ that

left the railway station of Drancy on September 11, 1942? What

happened to Daniel Belchatowski, aged 10, Solange Grinsztein,

aged 2, Raymonde Hubermarm, aged 7?

                   L. Darquier: How should I know? It was not my job to

know what happened to the Jews afterwards. My job was a purely

administrative one. I was a high French

official. I always took care that the problems of Jews in France

should be solved by

Frenchmen. And believe me, it was not easy. It was always

necessary to steer a course between Pierre Laval and that raving

madman Dannecker. Between the two of them, it was almost

impossible to do a good job. If I were to do it again, I am telling you

directly, I would refuse.

                   L'Express: Your answer raises several questions. Here

is the first one: what exactly do you mean, to do a good job?

                   L. Darquier: Separate the grain from the chaff. Protect

the French Jews, I told you already. As a matter of fact, I am going

to surprise you. Do you know that I had many Jewish friends?

Afterwards, in the course of events, they thought it well to cut me.

That's life. I am not angry with them. The more so as some of them

helped me, I will tell you about that later. To return to your

question, doing a good job, that consisted of preventing the

Germans from taking the Jewish problem in hand. Had they done

so, it would have been a catastrophe.

                              "A good choice was made by the Marechal and

President Laval when they entrusted Mr. Darquier de Pellepoix with

the Commission for Jewish Problems... Some assert sometimes

that in this country the anti‑Jewish struggle is but a pale copy of

German racism.

                              How naive they are! Do they not know that the

pure Frenchmen of France, and Darquier is one of them, have

nothing to learn from anybody in that matter. "

                   Andrg Chaumet, vice‑president of the Association of

Anti‑Jewish Journalisrs.

L'Express: Second question. Pierre Laval. What were your relations

with him?

                   L. Darquier: Quite cordial.

                   L'Express: Still he had you arrested on February 26,

1944, for "irregularities in the management of confiscated goods".

                   L. Darquier: But look here! Where did you fish for that?

Laval never had me

arrested. We disputed sometimes, true, but Laval was a good man,

he did a good job himself. There were many stories about Laval.

Some went so far as to claim that he was a Portuguese Jew. What a

lie! But it is true that he was ugly. Good God, how ugly he was, that

man! But he was not at all Jewish. He had an ugly mug from the

Auvergne, that's the truth. As a matter of fact, I frequently called

him "ugly mug from the Auvergne", and he was not offended. The

same with Petain. The story was told all over that Petain was

against my action, that he hated me. But for one, it was he who

nominated me as a commissioner, and for another, he never

disapproved of me. Every time I went to see him, when he saw me

from afar, he exclaimed: "Look, here comes my torturer!" But it

was for laughs. In fact he was laughing. And that did not prevent

him from shaking my hand. As for Laval, he was a good man, very

hardworking, very competent. Unfortunately, one must mention

that, he understood nothing of the Jewish question.

                   L'Express: We will go into details soon. Dannecker ...

                   L. Darquier: He was a mental case. I had troubles

without end with him.

                   L'Express: What kind of troubles?

                   L. Darquier: Well, that was stronger than himself: every

time he saw a German Jew on a list, he did all he could to save him

from deportation! The cosmopolitan

Jews without a homeland never had a better ally than he was.

                              July 6 1942. Wire from Dannecker to Berlin,

summarizing his July I conversation with Eichmann on the subject

of future lotteries.

                              "At the moment only the alien Jews without a

homeland should be gathered. In a second stage will be gathered

the Jews naturalized in France between 1919 and 1927".

                   L'Express: It seems to me on the contrary that you

agreed very well with

Dannecker. All documents go to prove it.

                   L. Darquier: Absolutely not so. The Germans never

stopped throwing a monkey wrench in my affairs.

                   L'Express: Well! Then what is the meaning of this note

of May 29 1943, written by Roethke, Dannecker's successor, to

Knochen: "Darquier has repeatedly asked us to support his

projects of laws, since he has lost for quite a long time all hope that

the French government will accept a single one of his projects?"

                   L. Darquier: That is another forgery! A forgery done

after the fact by the Jews! Ah, those Jews, they are priceless! They

are ready for anything to create a scapegoat.

They made of me a character in a novel. They absolutely wanted to

accuse me of everything. Me, who helped them so much! But they

never had me. In fact, it was very hard to get me, since I died


                   L'Express: How is that?

                   L. Darquier: I will tell you... In 1944, when it all started

cracking, I started thinking of my own health. A comrade took me to

Toulouse, another took me to Bordeaux, and a third one made me

pass into Spain. And then came the Liberation. A fine day, they

alighted on someone who resembled me to an astonishing degree.

It was a completely hysterical time, you know. They arrested no

matter whom, they shot

people at random. Then, they took that poor chap and the mob was

shouting: "It is

Darquier! It is Darquier! Shoot him!" Just between you and me, I

always thought that there were some of my friends in that crowd.

To go on...In short! They shot that poor unfortunate man in my

stead. And then a few years passed. They discovered that I was

safe and sound, living. Then they condemned me to death. In

contumacy. On December 10, 1947. They could do no other (he

laughs a little). But afterwards, let me tell you that they gave me a

royal peace!

                   L'Express: They never asked that you be extradited?

                    L. Darquier: Never. What do you imagine? After all, I

may as well tell you: until

recently, I have always had the best relations with the French

embassy in Madrid. We saw one another frequently. Sometimes I

went to their receptions.

                              On August 27, 1978, the spokesman of the Minister

of Justice declares: "Louis Darquier de Pellepoix has been

sentenced to death in contumacy, on December 10, 1947, for

treating with the enemy. His sentence has been prescribed since

1968. He is only forbidden to reside in France all his life".

                   L'Express: If I understand correctly, the author of the

great lottery of July 1942 is not guilty of a crime against humanity...

                   L. Darquier: In the first place, the great lottery, as you

call it, I had nothing to do

with it. It had been decided well before. I had been a commissioner

for a few weeks. I knew nothing.

                   L'Express: What is terrible with you is that as you never

stop telling frightening stories, whoever wants to ask you for mere

information finds himself obliged to

become an accuser. You had not been a commissioner for a few

weeks. You had been heading the anti‑Jewish oppression since the

month of May. Over two months! And you had already made

decisions that surprised even the Germans.

                   L. Darquier: It is funny that you come to talk to me about

the great lottery. That great lottery: Bousquet was the one who

organized it. From top to bottom. Bousquet was the chief of police.

He did it all. Now, you know what was his end, the end of

Bousquet? He got five years of national indignity. They say he

helped the "resistance!" What a farce! And he ended up being a

director of the Bank of Indochina. Ah, he knew how to shift for

himself, Bousquet! Still it was he who organized everything.

                   L'Express: I am sorry to sound like a cop, but how did

you spend the days of July 16, and 17, in 1942?

                   L. Darquier: What was there so extraordinary on July 16

and 17, 1942?

                   L'Express: The great lottery. Thousands of men, women

and children crowded at the V61odrome d'hiver before they were

shipped to Auschwitz.

                   L. Darquier: You will easily understand that I cannot

remember precisely what I was doing on that day.

                   But in all probability I went to my office, to deal with

current matters. Always,

always, those administrative tasks.

                   L'Express: You did not go to the Vel'd'hiv' to see what

was going on?

                   L. Darquier: Certainly not! Why would I have gone? I am

telling you again that

Bousquet was the one who organized everything.

                   Minutes of the meeting on Avenue Foch of July 4, 1942.

Present were:

Commander Dr. Knochen, Chief Commander SS Dannecker, High

Commander SS Schmidt. On the French part: Bousquet, State

Secretary for the Police, Darquier de Pellepoix, French

Commissioner for Jewish Problems. 11...A commission shall be set

up by the French in which there should be besides a representative

from the Jewish Problems, a representative from the State

Secretary for the Police... Bousquet immediately declared that the

direction of the commission must be in

the hands of the Commission for Jewish Problems... It must be

noted here that

Darquier de Pellepoix almost gave the impression that he was


accepting such a responsibility ."

                   L. Darquier: Well, yes! Somebody had to do that job. If I

had not been the one, it

would have been somebody else. A German, maybe.

                   L'Express: You were the Germans' man. They put you


                   L. Darquier: Another fable. The Marshal nominated me

for the commission.

Knowing well the facts. Knowing full well that I alone ‑ with a few

others ‑ was capable of completing the anti‑Jewish struggle within

the limits of French law.

                   L'Express: A fact which did not prevent you at all from

going to complain to the Germans when the government of Vichy,

alarmed, refused to implement your proposals.

                   L. Darquier: False! False! Extremely false! You have no

right to say that! You have a right to be intoxicated by Jewish

propaganda, but not to that extent ...

                    L'Express: You very much wrote the following: I do not

believe from the bottom of my heart and conscience that the

French state is capable of proceeding with

that national renewing. What is needed and my French heart

obliges me to ask this of you, Germans ‑ is that you should take

upon yourself the governance of France by allowing us to act for

ourselves." One can search through the archives of all of occupied

Europe, there will not be found a single other example of such

servility to the Nazis. You were asking for a Gauleiter!

                   L. Darquier: Quite on the contrary, I was prevaricating.

By putting on a show of

following them, of coming to meet their desires, I was keeping in

my own hands (in

French hands) the reins of the anti‑Jewish struggle. Laval did not

understand that strategy at all. In that respect he made nothing but


                   L'Express: Let us come back to that great lottery.

                   L. Darquier: If you wish. But I really have nothing else to


                   L'Express: But you have. The children. I have a

document here. A service note from the Gestapo. It is annotated by


                   L. Darquier: That madman!

                   L'Epress: This note is the German translation of your

report after the lottery of the Vel'd'hiv'. You were complaining that

only 8,980 persons were arrested. And Dannecker writes on the

margin: "That goes to show Darquier's activity ". And further on he

adds: "Over 4,000 children ". Sir, what happened to all those


                   L. Darquier: It was not me I am not responsible for that.

It was Laval. I am breaking myself in pieces repeating to you that

he understood nothing of the Jewish

question. Do you know what Laval did? When he was told of a

massive deportation, he said: "In the first place, do not separate

the children from their mothers." It was he who demanded that the

children should be deported with their parents. An ass's decision. I

wanted that the children should be taken in by public assistance.

                   L'Express: Perfectly true.

                   Urgent wire from Dannecker to Berlin (unknown

addressee) summarizing Laval's position on July 6, 1942.

                   "Conferences with the French government yielded up

to this day the following results:

                   "President Laval proposed that when deporting the

Jewish families from the

occupied zone children less then 16 should be included. The

problems of Jewish children who remain in the occupied zone does

not interest him. I am asking you to make an urgent decision, and

telegraph it, to let us know if when the 15th transport of Jews

leaves, children below 16 should also be deported"

                   L. Darquier: You see, it was not me.

                   L'Express: I take note of the fact that you do not dispute

that document. How

about this one?

                   First meeting of the Committee organizing the lottery.

Present were: Dannecker, Heinrischsohn, Darquier de Pellepoix,

etc. on July 8, 1942.

                   "Opening the meeting Darquier de Pellepoix notes that

the occupying authorities

stated their readiness to unburden the French state of the Jews and

proposes to meet to discuss the technical implementation of the

deportation... There were to be arrested in Paris about 28,000

Jews... The anti‑Jewish police inspectors and the women's

auxiliaries sort their cards and group them by district... The Jews

will then be gathered at the various town halls and transported to

the place of gathering (the Vel' dhiv). "

                   L. Darquier: Well. On paper I am responsible of what

happened. But in reality it

was Bousquet whose shoulder was at the wheel. He and his dirty

police! And, I did

not want an anti‑Jewish police! I wanted a French police, who

should have shouldered their responsibilities, do you see? But

there was nothing I could do!

                   L'Express: You claim that you had nothing to do with

the great lottery?

                    L. Darquier: Absolutely. I was just an official. I was so

far removed from the reality of things. And I was so busy saving

the good Jews, the French Jews...

                   July 23, 1942. Letter of Darquier de Pellepoix to Laval.

                    ... The General Commission for Jewish Problems has

been requested to place at the disposal of German authorities

32,000 Jewish men and women (22,000 from the occupied zone and

10,000 from the unoccupied zone)... More actions were taken on

July 16 and 17 and would yield the following figures: 3,095 men and

5,885 women.

                   11... My meeting of today with the occupying authorities

made it possible for me

to note that they were very dissatisfied. The number of trains

provided for that purpose by the German authorities is adequate for

the transportation of 32,000 Jews.

                   P? ‑ Allow me to suggest the following supplementary


                   1. Arresting all cosmopolitan Jews without a homeland.,

2. Arresting all Belgian and Dutch Jews and all alien Jews who do

not have a recent passport... 3. If, after

taking those steps, the envisaged figure is not yet reached, it would

be expedient to contemplate filling it by resorting to the Jews and

Jewesses whose French naturalization is dated after January 1,

1927 "

                   L'Express: That year 1927 was an obsession with you.

That year is found in almost all of your statements. Why is that?

                   L. Darquier: Because it was between 1927 and 1936 that

we had here in our home the great invasion of people without a

homeland, who came from everywhere and

from nowhere. People who wanted to ruin us. People who wanted

us to fight their war in their stead. And who, above all, did not want

us to prepare for war. People who wanted us defeated, who wanted

us ruined. You are too young: you do not know how it was before

the war.

                   L'Express: I know one thing, at any rate: in 1935, one

year before the popular front, a man like you was elected to the

municipal council in the XVIIth district. And on what unique

platform? Anti‑Semitism.

                   L. Darquier: That is false. I was elected on a nationalist

program! It is altogether different. And then in the first place, the

word anti‑Semite is an improper word...

                   L'Express: God knows if you used it though!

                   L. Darquier: It may be! But it would have been an error.

After all, the Arabs, they too, are Semites. Do not mix it up... But I

would like you to know, dear sir, in 1935,

after the Stavisky affair and all the rest, being a nationalist implied

being against the Jews. Because of the corruption, and of that

Jewish garnering of all means of communication. At that time there

was but one press that was not under the Jewish enterprise: the

right wing press! And, I repeat, they wanted the war, the Jews. I had

fought in 1914, I had done what is called "very admirable service". I

had no

intention to repeat that. And what is more, fight to be defeated! As a

matter of fact, it was a Jew ‑ you will like that ‑ Georges Mandel

himself wrote in the thirties: "It is the democracies that declare the

wars ". If a Jew...

                   L'Express: Whom your friends of the Militia


                   L. Darquier: That is more complicated than that. If a Jew

now should come to own that sort of thing, it must well be true. You

do not believe it? Now, the Jews

wanted the war. I did not want it. Or if one wanted it then one

should prepare seriously for it. But it was the Jews precisely who,

pretending to be pacifists, refused to do it. That is why I was


                   L'Express: When did it happen? Where?

                   L. Darquier: I must tell you that I am from Cahors. At

Cahors, we did not love the Jews. That is how it is. An old tradition.

It must go back to the Middle Ages. But I am repeating to you that I

was not elected on an anti‑Jewish platform. There was a national

tendency. That tendency elected me doubtlessly because of my

behavior on

February 6, 1934. Here, look here. (He pulls up the leg of his pant

and shows me a hole in his right calf). That one, I did not get it in

the trenches. I got it on February 6. The people of Paris knew that I

was fighting for my ideas. Physically. That must have impressed


                   June 1936. Meeting of the Municipal Council of Paris.

                   Mr. Darquier de Pellepoix, speaking of Mr. Georges

Hirsch: "If I discriminated among Jews, I am doing it again saying

that you are a dirty little Jew... The most racist people on earth are

the Jews. ... As long as you will not be rid of those

people, the national existence of the country will be threatened... "

                   L'Express: You must own that you were the Nazis

dream. Since 1936 you were

asking all over Paris for actions ‑denaturalizing, among others ‑ that

not even they dared impose in 1942.

                   L. Darquier: Again, you have no idea what was the

atmosphere in this country in the thirties. The Jews were all over.

They had all levels of command. When I struck

Leon Blum in the face, and I do not regret it...was a natural thing, a

thing that many

other Frenchmen dreamt of doing. At the time, one could not love

one's country, desire peace, without finding oneself pitted against

the Jews. It was impossible! But I must say nevertheless, that the

French are finicky people. They have a skin sensitivity to

demographic variations. When there are too many Jews, when they

feel surrounded, pressured by the Jews, they start shouting: "Out

with the Jews!" Eventually they get out in the streets. But as soon

as you kill 50 Jews, they start crying out loud. I would say about the

French in general that they are moderately


                   L'Express: The fact is that those moderately anti‑Jewish

people elected you

decidedly. In 1935. They elected one, yourself, who declared at a

meeting on March 11, 1937 at the Wagram Railway station: "The

Jewish question must be solved most urgently. Let the Jews be

exiled or massacred." Even at Nuremberg at that time it seems to

me that the language was more convoluted...

                   L. Darquier: It was a figure of speech. I, you know,

never wanted anyone dead.

                    L'Express: Not even the Jews you sent to Auschwitz?

                   L. Darquier: I wanted to see them gone, I was not

interested in the rest. It was

none of my business.

                   L'Express: I find that you had a very unique

punctiliousness in your persecution. Thus, on September 9, 1942,

you wrote the following internal note:

                   7he General Commissioner has noted that in the

correspondence of certain

bureaus the Jews were described as 'Israelites'. 77ze use of that

description is due

to Jewish influence which by forbidding the word 'Jew' managed to

realize in words the main means of defense of Jewry which

pretends that the Jewish question is nothing but a religious

question. At the General Commission for Jewish Problems a Jew

must be called a Jew, and the usage must not be 'Mr. Levy' or 'Mr.

Dreyfus' but 'the Jew Levy' and 'the Jew Dreyfus'...

                   Signed Darquier de Pellepoix

                   Distributed to all Vichy bureaus.

                    L. Darquier: So what? What is your objection? Are the

Jews not a race? Is it not true that they hide behind their pretended

religion to perpetrate their mischief all over the earth? Really, I do

not see what you find to cavil at in that memo. It is perfectly

harmless. There is no trace of persecution, as you say.

                   L'Express: Whoever spoke of race in 1942 in France to

describe persons or to

describe a people is an accessory to genocide. Is that not so?

                   L. Darquier: But, finally, there was no genocide, for

heaven's sake! You must put

that idea out of your head.

                   L'Express: Do you know that the process of Kurt

Lischka will begin shortly in

Germany. I have it from a reliable source that the Frankfurt tribunal

would be happy to have your testimony.

                   L. Darquier: You said Lischka? Who is that man?

                   L'Express: Generally speaking, the chief of the Gestapo

in Paris between 1940 and 1943.

                    L. Darquier: I see, a petty German official. I must have

met him two or three times. But there is decidedly something that

you do not manage to understand: I met very few Germans.

                   L'Express: That is exactly what is frightening. Your

decisions were not directly

dictated from Berlin. Do you know what Knochen stated to the

prosecutor on January 4, 1947 right before his trial?

                   L. Darquier: Knochen was not a madman like

Dannecker. I absolutely want to make a note of that.

                   L'Express: Knochen said: "After the arrival of Darquier

de Pellepoix, the General Commission for Jewish Problems

became excessively zealous, coming to meet

halfway all our desires and occasionally overstepping. "

                    L. Darquier: But certainly... Put yourself in the place of

that man. He is on trial, he will say anything to save his skin. It is

natural. It is human...

                   L'Express: And then, there is the famous meeting in

Paris with Heydrich, Bousquet and you, in May 1942, on the very

day of your nomination. What did you have to tell each other, you

and Heydrich?

                   L. Darquier: In the first place, I did not want to meet with

that man. But Knochen

insisted, and I ended by accepting, saying to myself that after all it

was better to find out what was in Heydrich's mind. So I went. We

shook hands. We exchanged a few words. We saw each other for

five minutes, all in all.

                   L'Express: You did not talk on that day about steps to

take in the weeks and months to come?

                   L. Darquier: No. I do not know what he may have said to

Bousquet and what

Bousquet said to him, but as far as my own conversation with

Heydrich is concerned, I assure you that it was perfectly


                   L'Express: I summarize: Bousquet and you received a

free hand from the Germans to carry out the anti‑Jewish

repression, the arrests, the lotteries. They must have trusted you!

And, in the end, those very Germans helped you pass into Spain...

                   L. Darquier: That is not true. It was French people who

saved me. But since you are coming to that epoch, I am going to

surprise you. Do you know who it was that

led me from Bordeaux to Spain over the mountains? A woman, a

half‑Jewish woman, who as a matter of fact was using her father's

Jewish name. I saw her again, later, at Barcelona, we were very

close until her death. That amazes you, does it? And just now I was

telling you that I was left in royal peace. Do you know owing to

whom? To Jews, to a great extent. To good French Jews, whom I

had helped in difficult times. Among others, a certain Worms. I am

not going to tell you any more...

                   L'Express: Thus, contrary to what is being said quite

frequently, far from getting

rich from Jewish property, you allowed certain great families to

keep their riches? You had the tanners and furriers from the XIth

district sent to Auschwitz, and you protected the great capitalists of

the XVIth district? In fact, that is not illogical...

                   L. Darquier: I refuse to answer that kind of questions. I

am reminding you that my sentence has been prescribed.

                   L'Express: Thus, you came to Spain...

                    L. Darquier: Yes. And in the beginning my wife and I

were as poor as Job. I read, I don't know where, that I had a

suspenders business. That is untrue. I sold

suspenders, true, but as a street vendor, in the gardens of the

Retiro in Madrid. But

fortunately the tribulation did not last long. That is because I

maintained good friends in Spain; from the times of the civil war.

Military people. They helped me. They put me back on my feet.

They protected me.

                   L'Express: What military people?

                   L. Darquier: You will not find that out. I hate informing,

my dear sir. I will tell you that I became the official translator of the

Oficenia diplornatica. I translated the official speeches of Franco's

ministers. I also translated "The Red Book of the Gibraltar". Later, I

could set up my little language school.

                   L'Express: And for a very long time you were there,

under your own name, in the Madrid telephone book, that is true...

However you were luckier than Laval. The

Spaniards extradited him.

                   L. Darquier: Not at all. If he had stayed in Madrid,

quietly, like me, nothing would have happened to him. But one fine

day his wife said to him: "Let us return. You

did nothing. They will not dare touch you ". And he returned, to

please his wife. You know the rest. They shot him, the poor old

man... The poor ugly mug from the Auvergne...

                   L'Express: In 34 years, nobody came to see you,

nobody tried to kidnap you,

nobody threatened you?

                   L. Darquier: Nobody ever... Oh yes... Three years ago,

somebody, a French voice, rang me up to call me names. He said:

"Scumbag! We will take your hide ". I was

frightened. Not so much for myself. For my family. I called

immediately my military friends to ask for special protection from

them. They gave it to me immediately. After that, nothing!

                   L'Express: Do you feel regret sometimes? Remorse?

                   L. Darquier: Regrets for what? I do not understand your



                   1) That was a purely formal law; after March 1941,

French police were arresting Jews who were French since 1897, to

deliver them to the Germans!

                   2)Darquier's protector was General Barroso


            New Christian Crusade Church

                         P.O. Box 449

                      Arabi, LA 70032




                             by James K. Warner

           (From the Christian Vanguard)

                   (Following up on our article by Louis Darquier

dePellipoux in the June issue of the CDL Report, I thought that our

subscribers might appreciate reading a letter I wrote to Dr. Charles

E. Goshen questioning his personal opinions on Jews in


Conentration camp as well as others.

                    Like many others who comment on Jews being

"gassed" Dr. Goshen never stopped to think about the

contradictions he made in his letter to the Tennessean in 1978.


                          May 5, 1980

                 Dr. Charles E. Goshan

                  Vanderbilt University

                  Dept. of Engineering

                     Nashville, Tenn.

    Dear Dr. Goshan:

                    This is the first opportunity that I have had to comment

on your article on Mauthausen Concentration Camp which was

published in the Tennessean of April 23, 1978.

                   In your article you state, "In the main camp we

discovered that there were no

Jews. Shortly, we would find Jewish women incarcerated in

another camp nearby."

                   In the book The Trustees for the Atonement in the

Concentration Camp at

Dachau, Catholic Bishop, Dr. Johann Neuhausler also reported the

absence of Jews

at Dachau concentration camp. He attributes the absence to, "...

Transports of German Jews began to arrive at the camp. After a

short term, of imprisonment, most of them received permission to

go overseas...." Bishop Neuhausler was in Dachau from July 12,

1941 until April 24, 1945. In the book Fighting Auschwitz, the author,

Josef Garlinski, said in January 1944 only 5% of those in Auschwitz

were Jews. From other reports it seems that very few Jews, were

in fact interned in the concentration camps.

                   In your article you continue, "There may have been

more than 100,000 of them (Jews); perhaps many more. They had

been exterminated. They died in the gas

chambers, or were shot. Some, it was thought by the survivors, had

been sent away."

                   The Encyclopedia Judaica, Vol.5, page 96, has a map of

Europe in it showing the "Concentration Camps and the

extermination camps." This Israeli government published

encyclopedia clearly distinguishes between what they call

"concentration" (work) camps and alleged "extermination"

(gassing) camps. Dachau and Mauthausen are shown on this map

as Concentration (work) camps. The Jews themselves admit that

no one was "gassed" at Mauthausen. Bishop Neuhausler makes it

clear in his book that no one was "gassed" at Dachau.

                   You mention that the camp hospital had about 6,000

patients in it. Didn't you think it somewhat strange that the Nazis

would go through the trouble of putting these

individuals in the hospital for treatment if they intended to "gas"

them? Don't you think the logical thing to do with people you intend

to "kill"‑‑if indeed that was the intent, would be to immediateIy

"gas" or shoot them rather than send them to the hospital to be


                    Also, you mention that the third army had obstacles in

providing you with supplies. You state that thousands were dying

because you could not get adequate supplies or food. Then how in

heavens name could you expect the German army to supply the

camps when the allied air force held absolute air superiority in the

last months of the war and bombed and strafed almost all the

trucks and trains they could find? You had difficulty in supplying

your forces at the camp after the war ended. Herman Mueller, who

was in charge of the food stores at Belsen was quoted in the Broom

(Nov. 12, 1945) as saying, "Mueller is expected to tell of the

difficulties in getting food for the over crowded Belsen, to

corroborate Commandant Joseph Kramer's testimony that his

efforts to supplement the camp's food supplies failed. Kramer said

the bombing raids broke down transport systems.

                   You also state, "A new problem we had not previously

addressed was that of births and care of babies among the women

prisoners. A very considerable number of

women were pregnant. Some babies had already been born." Don't

you think it strange that the "terrible Nazis" would allow women

they planned to "gas" to have babies in the camps? Also, if

conditions were so terrible in the camps how could the women get

pregnant? In Fighting Auschwitz the author flatly states that there

was plenty of opportunity for "romance" at the concentration

camps. If the Nazis had planned to "gas" the prisoners it would

certainly not be in their best interests to let these children be born

in the camps. Jewish doctors in New York City perform over

200,000 abortions every year and they are certainly not charged

with "crimes against humanity". The Nazis not only allowed the

pregnant women in the camps to develop but delivered the babies.

Don't you think if the aim was to "exterminate"

those in the camps that as soon as the women were found to be

pregnant forced abortions would have been the order of the day?

                   You also state that over 400 prisoners died from

disease the day your unit arrived at the camp. If your unit with all

the medical supplies and food you had available

couldn't save them‑‑then how could you expect the Germans to

save them with almost no medical supplies? You also mention that

typhus was rampant at the camp. This was the same condition that

existed at all the camps. You up and burned.

                   A great many historians seem to confuse crematoriums

and "gas chambers". No one will contest the fact that a lot of

people died in the camps from disease and were cremated.

However, this does not mean they were "gassed". I suggest you

get the

work by Dr. Arthur Butz, Hoax of the 20th Century .

                   By writing articles which contain half truths,

misinformation, speculation, guesswork and unintentional lies

regarding the "gassing" of the Jews you play into the hands of the

Zionist propagandists. The State of Israel and Jewish control of

American politics exists today because of the Holocaust Hoax.

Christians all over the world have been burdened with a false guilt

complex by the

Jews and those who promote the falsehood about the Jews being,

"gassed" in WW II.

I believe you were sincere in writing your article and based it on

what you thought were accurate facts.

                   As a sincere person I hope you will take steps to correct

the errors you made in your article.

           New Christian Crusade Church

                         P.O. Box 449

                      Arabi, LA 70032

Reference Materials